Well, the Strayer 3 test must have been a shock! But remember my "Hacking through the Jungle" analogy, each time through the jungle gets easier, and the payoff at the resort is well worth the effort. The first time is never easy. Don't die on the beach!
79 Comments
Cassie Barham
4/9/2016 10:33:06
Hi! So as I was reading the section on Confucianism, I began to think about why it seemed to be so much more effective than Legalism as a sustainable system and about how it was so accepted into Chinese culture. This is what I took away from the text.
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Cassie Barham
4/9/2016 10:44:26
In addition, I just have an observation about Legalism. In a way, it was really ironic; one of the principles of Legalism was that only the state and its rulers could perform in the long-term interests of the people. This is despite that fact that Legalism was very short lived and only provided short-term unification and solutions (under Shihuangdi) due to its brutality. I found that pretty funny while I was reading.
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Sofia Puccio
4/9/2016 15:02:54
Great point about parallels between family/political life, I agree. Could you also say that another reason why Confucianism caught on so quickly is because family life was already a central element of Chinese popular culture and was therefore more accessible to the majority of the population?
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Cassie Barham
4/9/2016 16:32:25
I think the familiarity family values was definitely a significant part of why Confucianism became so associated with Chinese culture. Confucianism also in a way heightened the importance of family life by applying that model to politics, and that would have raised the stakes (and in turn increased motivation) to maintain harmonious family situations. Like Strayer says, filial piety not only held significance in its own right, but also functioned as a training ground for the reverence due to the state.
Cassie Barham
4/9/2016 16:56:18
Sorry, I meant familiarity OF family values :)
Yasmeen Gaber
4/9/2016 17:16:04
Interesting points! I agree with you for the most part, but on the topic of class subjugation, this was not a Legalism-specific concept; Confucianism accepted and often touted social inequality (the presence of "superior men"), and its values left civil servants superior to military men and merchants (although this was less active than Legalism). The Legalistic divide was certainly harsher than Confucianism, but Confucianism was nonetheless divisive in its own right. One might say that Confucianism's optimism regarding human nature propelled people to be more independently moral rather than strict government intervention, which is why Confucianism was generally more popular. I hope that was helpful!
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Cassie Barham
4/9/2016 19:54:40
I see where you are coming from, but I don't mean to say there wasn't inequality in Confucianism. You are right in saying Confucianism advocated hierarchies. However, I think a key differentiation between Legalism and Confucianism is the way these hierarchies were justified in each system. In Legalism, authoritative, social, and political power lay in the hands of the state and its rulers, who in practice used this prowess at the expense of the majority of the Chinese people. Where Confucianism is concerned however, the cultivation of sincerity and benevolence on the part of "superior" parties was key in maintaining a tranquil society. This includes the relationship with the state authorities and the Chinese people, and the way the appropriate behavior for these large-scale relationships and circumstances was communicated was often through the telescoped version of family dynamics. In a very important aspect, I think it could be said that this created understanding between the state and its people, which would have created a more united civilization than one under Legalism.
Yasmeen Gaber
4/9/2016 21:04:06
I definitely understand where you're coming from. The way I thought about this was like two different parenting styles: super strict (unnecessarily so) and more relaxed but with a clear set of boundaries. If you're superfluously strict with a teen, you're often less likely to get results than when you treat them "with benevolence", while also maintaining a clear parent-child relationship. All of that also ties into the Confucian analogy of family to government. I hope that makes sense!
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Cassie Barham
4/9/2016 22:01:41
Ha! I really like that. It's interesting too, considering that Legalism and Confucianism (and Daoism) were formulated as responses to the disorder and chaos of China during the age of the warring states--almost like disciplinary measures a parent might take on an out of control kid.
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Bingham
5/9/2016 14:08:41
That's exactly what Confucius was attempting to accomplish, establish order at the family level, and let those ideas percolate up through society - including to the state.
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Amy Vaughan
5/9/2016 16:39:06
MQ2: Why has Confucianism been defined as a "humanistic philosophy" rather than a supernatural religion?
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Yasmeen Gaber
5/9/2016 16:47:58
That's almost verbatim what I wrote. Because I've seen mostly 3-5 line answer spaces on the tests we've taken, I tried to practice being able to answer the margin/big picture questions both fully and concisely to fit that requirement. I'm not sure that there's more you can say to answer that question without getting verbose. Certainly, we could talk about the concepts of wen and wu and the social structure erected by Confucius, but to answer the question, I think what you have is all we need. Let's see what others have to say on the subject!
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Bingham
5/9/2016 17:15:49
Concise is the opposite of vague!
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Audrey Mills
7/9/2016 21:56:29
Thank you for the concise answer! I find it interesting how Confucianism is similar to Buddhism in this respect, as the Buddha was more focused on personal transformation and, while not denying their existence, deemed gods or supernatural beings them irrelevant to his teachings. (Though this does not apply in the modified, Mahayana form of Buddhism that incorporates the bodhisattvas.)
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Amy Vaughan
5/9/2016 17:16:46
MQ1: Comparison: What different answers to the problem of disorder arose in classical China?
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Eliza Pillsbury
5/9/2016 17:41:42
Amy, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Confucianism was the philosophy that advocated regression to the "Golden Age"? Strayer says, "Confucianism also placed great importance on history, for the ideal good society lay in the past. Confucian ideas were reformist, perhaps even revolutionary, but they were consistently presented as an effort to restore a past golden age." This passage came to mind when I read your description of Daoism. Am I misinterpreting? Thank you!
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Matilda
5/9/2016 20:04:44
Not sure if this is important/too specific but Strayer also mentioned that Confucian values established the expectation for emperors to keep taxes low, administer justice, and provide for the material needs of the people.
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Bingham
5/9/2016 17:17:59
Are you guys looking at those rhetorical questions embedded in the text, and then writing down the answers. I think that is important.
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Eliza Pillsbury
5/9/2016 17:49:28
Okay, here is the first instance I noticed of rhetorical questions. In the chapter introduction, he shoots off a string of them: "Why did these traditions all emerge at roughly the same time?...What is the relationship between ideas and the circumstances in which they arrive? Are ideas generated by particular political, social, and economic conditions? Or are they the product of creative human imagination independent of the material environment? Or do they derive from some combination of the two?" I found the first question to be the most concrete, while the rest offered speculation about the first. Do y'all agree? These questions seem to be addressed throughout the chapter.
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Amy Vaughan
5/9/2016 18:14:26
I'll just add that all of the societies were at about the same place politically, socially, and economically, so they were all experiencing the factors you listed at around the same time. These factors were cause for disruption in such societies. Such disruption led people to question their lifestyles and brainstorm new and improved ways of living and cultural organization. In that way, disruption was the base cause of new religions and philosophies, and variation per location was built off of such a base.
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Bingham
6/9/2016 05:55:15
This is interesting guys. Eliza, you did a great job of being descriptive of the state of things as these new ideas emerged. Amy, you carried that forward to the cause/effect aspect implied by the question. Teamwork, it's a beautiful thing!
Amy Vaughan
7/9/2016 20:39:15
We could even include examples of instances where similar themes occurred in different religions (Ex: Zoroastrianism-> Judaism-> Christianity and Islam, OR the similarities between Buddhism and Christianity)
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Sofia Puccio
5/9/2016 18:36:25
So I attempted to create my own margin question (MQ 5.5???)
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Eliza Pillsbury
5/9/2016 21:01:53
This is fantastic!!! I found while looking at Margin Question 5 that many of the ways Buddhism "challenged" Hinduism were what made it so popular/more accessible. A lot of those distinguishing features are reflected here in your answer.
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Amy Vaughan
5/9/2016 19:38:58
MQ4: In what ways did the religious traditions of South Asia change over the centuries?).
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Yasmeen Gaber
5/9/2016 20:10:40
Because of the way the question is placed, I don't think you have to, but I would talk about Buddhism, Theravada vs. Mahayana, and its diffusion throughout Asia because Buddhism in India kind of ends up rolled into Hinduism (the Buddha becomes a ninth incarnation of Vishnu) and there is, of course, a comparison to be made about the influence of Hinduism on Buddhism (ascetic Hindus, as a subsect, attempted to reach moksha through deprivation, which is how early Buddhists attempted to reach nirvana).
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Eliza Pillsbury
5/9/2016 21:03:48
I definitely included Buddhism in my answer. It emerged in two different forms not long after Hinduism, and its growth provoked the new form of "popular Hinduism" that you addressed
Yasmeen Gaber
5/9/2016 20:15:35
MQ3: How did the Daoist outlook differ from that of Confucianism?
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Eliza Pillsbury
5/9/2016 21:07:10
MQ6. What is the difference between the Theravada and Mahayana expressions of Buddhism?
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Grant Cambron
5/9/2016 21:37:29
I want to say how interested I am in the dynamic of Confucianism and Daoism. It really stuck out to me how a scholar/politician could practice the governing benefits of Confucianism in office, yet go back home and practice the more natural approach to life with Daoism. In a world surrounded by intolerance of different teachings, it really blew my mind to see two opposing systems like that coexist like it did.
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Grant Cambron
5/9/2016 21:47:01
I also find it interesting how neither Buddha nor Jesus wanted their own religion. They just wanted to "enlighten" the people around them. This just shows how noble these people were. They were just kind-hearted people who wanted to change peoples' lives.
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Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 17:35:57
Hello! Based on our review of the last test, Mr. Bingham is looking for answers that may more closely resemble inferences than quotations, while still staying succinct. With that in mind, how does my answer for MQ7 sound? I would love feedback
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Bingham
7/9/2016 06:52:55
This post inspires me on a couple of levels. While I certainly am not looking for quotes (more like interpretations of what you've read), inferences are often the analytical part of your answer - maybe the last point or two in your answer. Remember, it's all there in Strayer, but it may not be overtly stated. Read deep! I want you guys thinking, not simply regurgitating Strayer.
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Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 18:02:11
MQ10. What are the distinctive features of the Greek intellectual tradition?
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Amy Vaughan
6/9/2016 20:36:36
I might also add that their methods of questioning were not only applied to explanation of the "material world" (which I tend to think of as maths and sciences), but also to ethics and government (the humanities side of things). Do you agree?
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Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 18:06:07
Also, here is another subtly worded rhetorical question I found.
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Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 18:12:55
I noticed this goes back to Amy's comment on the first rhetorical question. It seems there is a theme: all of these cultural and religious traditions emerged from a search for order in an increasingly complex society.
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Amy Vaughan
6/9/2016 18:41:24
Thinking back to the 2nd chapter, this was also one of the reasons for the institution of political/administrative systems in early human societies. What is it with humans and the need to grasp for order?
Bingham
7/9/2016 06:57:39
Yeeeeesssss! Look at you guys, seeing themes and broad trends. This makes me happy!
Allison Lee
6/9/2016 19:28:20
Strayer does not mention this, and I may be incorrect, Maybe the values of the Greek culture leaned towards independent thought, as the semi-democracy may suggest. The idea that everyone has a "voice" in society, may bring people to develop unconventional thoughts and be more careful about what they believe that others tell them.
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Amy Vaughan
6/9/2016 20:40:54
I find this analysis very interesting- that the system of traditions for Greece was influenced by pro-independence political structure (which in turn was influenced by Greece's separated physical geography).
Cassie Barham
7/9/2016 16:32:22
Oh gosh, I just realized that you posted on this like an hour before me, and I overlooked it! I must not have refreshed before posting, but either way I'm glad to see that the connections we're making are similar.
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Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 18:13:49
All in favor of naming the rhetorical questions RQs? To follow the trend of MQ, BPQ...
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Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 18:43:25
Aye!
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Sofia Puccio
6/9/2016 19:04:11
So since Mr. Bingham mentioned that a question about similarities between the Buddha and Jesus is coming up on the next test...I've come up with around 13 so far but I'm missing one. Maybe you guys have some ideas?
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Allison Lee
6/9/2016 19:18:10
Perhaps, one similarity (Which you touched on), was that they both had roots in a different religion, for Jesus, Judaism, and for Siddhartha Gautama, Hinduism.
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Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 19:21:32
I guess my biggest question for this is whether we need to think broader and break down the points Strayer gives us, like Sofia did for numbers eleven and twelve, for example. Or whether we should make more specific inferences to complete our 14 points.
Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 19:18:33
I think this is a great conversation to start on here. I have some answers that I don't see in your list (and vice versa). Here's my list so far:
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Sofia Puccio
6/9/2016 19:25:34
Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I think I was too concerned with getting as many different points as possible, haha! I also like how you consolidated yours more, I will try that too.
Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 19:32:41
Also, I had a longer list of both similarities and differences... Strayer uses the word "comparisons" but Bingham mentioned specifically similarities. Are y'all making a T chart or two separate lists or just one...?
Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:46:53
I'm most likely doing a Venn Diagram for this one--I'll have a visual of the similarities and differences in relation to each other
Bingham
7/9/2016 18:25:43
Okay, this is tough, so I'm going to reward those of you working the forum. Shhhh. Don't post this to FaceBook.
Amy Vaughan
6/9/2016 19:43:48
Here are some others that I came up with:
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Heidi
6/9/2016 22:25:26
What about how differences in understanding emerged? As Buddhism spread, people began to question how nirvana could be achieved, or how to cross the river to the far shore of enlightenment. This led to differences like Theravada and Mahayana. In Christianity, differences in Jesus (was he human, divine, or both?), his relationship to God (equal or inferior?), and the concept of the Trinity (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) emerged. There were different positions like orthodox, Monophysite, and Nestorianism.
Bingham
7/9/2016 07:04:48
Good stuff Amy.
Bingham
7/9/2016 07:06:58
Heidi, good thinking, but you are going a bit too far down the road for those to be meaningful answers to the comparison.
Bingham
7/9/2016 07:02:25
Sofia, good work, but #1 is a bit too broad and obvious; not specific - you know, vague?
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Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:08:19
This time around, I've tried coming up with my own questions (I think it was Amy who mentioned last time that she was doing this? That's where I got the idea.), and there are some I might post on here to run by y'all, this being one of them.
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Eliza Pillsbury
6/9/2016 19:13:18
These insights look similar to the answers to a rhetorical question Strayer poses at the introduction of "The Search for a Rational Order"! So you and Strayer are on the same page!
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Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:24:32
I'm pretty sure I pulled this right from that section, so I doubt the correlation is accidental. I did multiple questions for each section, and the main goal of them was to take conclusive statements/reasoning Strayer provides or alludes to and to either analyze them or reorganize them in a way that points out their significance. As I'm reviewing, I seem to be making more connections with the text, so hopefully this will prove fruitful!
Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:15:06
Another general question of mine:
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Sofia Puccio
6/9/2016 19:29:44
I like this question. Maybe you could elaborate on the first point to include cultural aspects such as language under "diversity?" I'm sure the translating of Christian texts into various local languages played a part in its lack of unity/consistency.
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Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:35:30
I think you're totally right. Language would have played a crucial role.
Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:34:45
Last MQ: In what ways was Christianity transformed in the five centuries following the death of Jesus?
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Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:36:50
*hierarchy. Sorry!
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Cassie Barham
6/9/2016 19:43:55
MQ #5: In what ways did Buddhism reflect Hindu traditions, and in what ways did it challenge them?
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Yasmeen Gbaer
6/9/2016 20:12:01
BQ1: Is a secular outlook on the world an essentially modern phenomenon, or does it have precedents in the second-wave era?
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Amy Vaughan
6/9/2016 22:31:31
(Not an official margin question): What was the legacy of Greek rationalism?
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Cassie Barham
7/9/2016 17:01:46
What is the historical significance of religion? (Not a margin question, but Strayer talks about this in the Reflections section)
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Cassie Barham
7/9/2016 17:58:16
When Strayer talks about monotheism, he calls it "a radical cultural innovation." He then continues to bring up the possibility of an open and universal quality to it but also the possibility of intolerance. It seemed a significant statement, so I formulated a question around it and attempted to answer it based on what follows in the text.
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Bingham
7/9/2016 18:16:46
Wow Cassie, super analysis! Keep thinking this way.
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Cassie Barham
7/9/2016 18:16:15
This was a Summing Up So Far question:
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Amy Vaughan
7/9/2016 19:10:16
For this question, I talked about how the Chinese traditions all coexisted (except for Legalism, associated with the harsh Qin dynasty), and though they were distinctly different, it was not looked down upon to dabble in many.
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Cassie Barham
7/9/2016 20:02:31
I just meant to tie it back to India being diverse and China involving assimilation. The expression of Hinduism throughout India was diverse, and this was in no way a hindrance to order in India.
Yasmeen Gaber
7/9/2016 20:40:10
MQ12: In what ways was Christianity transformed in the five centuries following the death of Jesus?
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Air'eanna Page-Wilson
7/9/2016 20:44:41
I was also looking at some of the differences between Buddha and Jesus and I have come of with the following list ....
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Yasmeen Gaber
7/9/2016 20:54:20
Those are all great comparisons! However, they sound a little bit more like comparisons of the religions and ideological doctrines of Christianity and Buddhism rather than their founders. I think what Bingham was going for in the question of comparing Jesus and the Buddha was to scope out the historical parallelism of the development of these religions through a lens which had been zoomed in on the founders. You should certainly use everything you have there (good stuff!), but I would gear it a little more towards the lives of the founders and how that impacted the evolution of the religion, not just in theology, but also in politics. I hope that helps!
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Yasmeen Gaber
7/9/2016 21:27:22
In the context of the question Bingham posted above, all of the stuff you listed is incredibly useful, but you should also look into the personal aspects of the leaders (beautifully detailed by both Strayer and Bingham).
Ashi Porter
8/9/2016 00:56:40
It's midnight and I feel so alive so I decided to answer MQ5 since I noticed that no one as answered it yet.
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BinghamWelcome class of 2019. Some years students collaborate in this space effectively, some years not so much. One thing I know, collaboration significantly enhances learning. If you want access to my thoughts, this is the collaboration space to use. Most people propose an answer to margin questions, big picture question, or anything else related to managing Strayer. Other people can then comment leading to a stronger answer. I'll keep an eye on these pages, and pop in when I think you need me. Archives
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