Islam & the World, the World & Islam Strayer 11

24/10/2014

Isabella Jarosz

25/10/2014 11:21:39

There's a quote on 316 of the yellow book, which goes as such, "It is not permissible for a stranger to hear the sound of a pestle being pounded by a woman he does not know. If he knocks at the door, it is not proper for the woman to answer him softly and easily because men's hearts can be drawn to women for the most trifling reason...However, if the woman has to answer the knock, she should stick her finger in her mouth so that her voice sounds like that of an old woman." This quote is regarding male and female inequality in Islam, but I don't understand what it's saying. Can someone clarify it for me? Thanks!

Ana Larrazolo

25/10/2014 11:49:30

Ok, so two paragraphs after that quote Strayer explains that woman were seen as a "sexually changed threat to men and social stability" and also in the quote we see this al-Ghazali rational reflect this "...because men's hearts can be drawn to women for the most trifling reasoning" This also supplies the justification that it must be to the a woman to conduct herself according and not cause a man to become sexually or romantically appealing to a male. This idea is also supported by the taboos, social constructed of shame, self respect and virtue. If this is too vague I'll explain more thoroughly.
:)

Ana Larrazolo

25/10/2014 11:51:31

***female

Isabella Jarosz

25/10/2014 14:42:21

Thank you!!

Bingham

25/10/2014 11:55:54

Hi Isabellla, I hope Chicago was cool.

So basically this quote identifies women and the ordinary things they do as too great a sexual temptation to men. Like even a good guy, devoted to his wife, might be tempted into adultery with too much contact with other women. So the solution at this time in Islamic history and in these places is to seclude women.

As with the myth that people offer when they misinterpret the Old Testament, that it was Eve that talked Adam into committing original sin, it's blaming women for the issue of male sexual temptation. Is analogous to "blaming the victim". Sort of likes modern defence at tourney defending a rapist, "sure ma'am, we understand what happened, but weren't you wearing revealing clothing that sent the wrong message to my client?"

Savanna

26/10/2014 06:52:35

UGH that analogy about the clothing makes so much more sense. Thanks and ugh.

Lorenz & Charlie

26/10/2014 02:33:46

Okay guys, so me and Charlie are pooling study techniques, and we will not only be answering MQ & BPQ, we will also be doing the Islam vs. World stuff that Sr. Bingham showed us in class. Wooooh!! Good Grades!!

Bingham

26/10/2014 03:04:06

I've always found bragging after the act more endearing than before.

Bingham

26/10/2014 11:38:27

Okay, fine, do it your way. Remember the reading check is Monday/Tuesday this week due to early release on Wednesday.

Ana Larrazolo

26/10/2014 13:47:19

Margin Question #1

In what ways did the early history of Islam reflect its Arabian origins?

-Islam increasingly identified Allah with Yahweh, the Jewish High God, and identified themselves as "Children of Abraham"
-The Quran denounced prevailing social practices of the increasingly prosperous Mecca (hoarding of wealth, the exploration of the poor, the charging of high rates of interest on loans, the corrupt business deals, the abuse of woman, and the neglect of the widows and orphans)
It also sought out to return to the older VALUES of Arab tribal life (solidarity, equality, concern for the poor)
-The message of the Quran challenged the entire tribal and clan STRUCTURE of Arab society, which was prone to war, feuding and violence. The just and moral society of Islam was the Umma, the community of all believers, replacing tribal and ethnic, or racial identities.

If I'm missing anything or I should leave some out let me know please.

ALSO, Can someone explain to me how Islam was using the values of Arab tribal life which included "equality" but they "challenged the clan structure of Arab society... replacing tribal, ethnic or racial identities"
It seems really ironic to me... was the equality they were trying to apply to Islam a equality practiced within a clan and they were trying to challenge the ethnic and racial identities apparent from clan to clan?
Thanks :)

Bingham

26/10/2014 23:35:31

I think the best way to grasp it is to see that early Islam is replacing loyalty to the clan with loyalty to the larger umma, the community of Islam; using the clan terminology, to make the idea understandable. So Islam replaces these clan ideas with a larger idea, holding on to the the useful parts and replacing the dysfunctional ones - all the revenge and fighting stuff.

Ana Larrazolo

27/10/2014 13:38:35

AHHHH okay this makes sense! And it was obviously very effective, because we can see this when Malcolm X is describing his pilgrimage to Islam and he saw all the brotherhood incorporated in Islam despite all the different ethnic backgrounds and such. Thanks Mr.Bingham!

Bethany

27/10/2014 14:37:54

I don't understand how this point about Islam challenging the tribal and clan structure of the Arabs reflects Islam's Arabian origins. Could someone explain? Does it have something to do with your above answer Mr. Bingham?

Ana Larrazolo

27/10/2014 15:45:05

The Messenger and the Message
Paragraph 5 Line 9-11 (btw I'm sorry if I'm citing this awfully it's just easier)
"The Umma, then, was to be a new and just community, bound by a common belief, rather than by territory, language or tribe"
So we see here what Strayer is saying that they still have the clan structure of Arab tribal times, it's just now the clan isn't based on the factors of; territory, language or tribe., but now Islam and the brotherhood of Islam.
...it's pretty deep actually :) Hope this helps Bethany!

Bethany

28/10/2014 10:50:38

Thanks!

Savanna Lim

26/10/2014 13:48:41

Margin Question 4:
Why were Arabs able to construct such a huge empire so quickly?

- Though they were continuing a long pattern of tribal raids, they were newly organized in a state with a central command that could mobilize the military potential of the entire Arab pop.
-Byzantine & Persian empires did not see Arabs as threats and were eventually absorbed by them
- The merchant leaders of the Islamic community wanted to capture profitable trade routes and wealthy agricultural regions.
-Some Arabs saw military expansion as a way to wealth and social promotion
-External expansion was a common "task" that united the umma after Mohammed's death
- Many viewed the mission of empire in terms of jihad and used it to justify and encourage the conquering.
-Even respected people of other faiths and named them "dhimmis".

Did i miss anything? If I did, ayudame por favor.

Ana Larrazolo

26/10/2014 13:57:26

Just add to the second one that the Byzantine and Persian empires were weakened by decades of war with each other and by internal revolts. But the rest looks great!

Bingham

26/10/2014 23:38:33

I wouldn't underestimate the power of the jihad stuff. I mean people can really get behind spreading a religion. Sort of missionaries with swords!

Ana Larrazolo

29/10/2014 16:23:32

OHHHHH I GET IT! So Jihad in this context is basically them saying "hey we're gonna take over your land, try and get Islam to dominate, the people living here before can convert cause it's very easy and you can get some rewards, but if it Islam isn't your thing you'll just have to pay taxes and not get the same benefits of the incentives as the converts but whatever" I was so confused with the Spreading with the sword because I thought they were killing people and I also thought that was a Western idea... but I have been enlightened

Bingham

26/10/2014 23:40:54

I don't know about you guys, but I'm just really blown away by all the great posts by Lorenz and Charlie. Whew. Overwhelming and insightful!

Charlie Wannall

29/10/2014 17:29:29

ha...ha...

Bethany

27/10/2014 14:57:31

I'm a little confused about MQ3- In what ways was the rise of Islam revolutionary, both in theory and practice? Is he asking how was it revolutionary from an Arab view or from a more broad, Eurasian view? Could Islam's radical monotheism be considered revolutionary? I'm debating it, because there was a large Jewish and Christian influence in Arab society, so it's nothing new from that standpoint, but Muhammad overthrew the idols in the Kabba, which I consider revolutionary. From a broader Eurasian view, monotheism is certainly not revolutionary. Could someone help me out please? I think I'm overcomplicating this haha.

Bethany

27/10/2014 14:59:51

I'm leaning towards the broader view, because this is World history after all, but I just want to be sure. :)

Isabella Jarosz

28/10/2014 14:26:11

I answered this MQ by looking at what Muslims viewed as revolutionary (theory) and how what they were doing effected those who did not practice Islam (practice). Someone, tell me if you got something different!
PS, I've answered the majority of the BPs and MQs (still finishing up the last BQs), but if you would like to compare with me, feel free to ask.

Isabella Jarosz

28/10/2014 14:55:38

By "you" I mean any peeps on the forum

Bingham

28/10/2014 11:47:19

Okay guys, you need a good score on this one. No "boring chapter" excuse here. Just do the work. You and I know what you need to do, and we're the only ones that matter. Tell others what you want, but you have to look at yourself in the mirror, in silence, with nobody "liking" your post. THIS is reality!

Hank Funderburk

28/10/2014 16:15:43

MQ #10 - Why was Anatolia so much more thoroughly Islamized than India?

- Anatolia had a smaller population with more Turkic invaders than India.
- Anatolia was already accustomed to monotheism through Christianity, making conversion simpler than in polytheist India.
- Sufi Muslims built schools and other institutions, replacing Christian ones.
- Anatolian society was disrupted more than the decentralized Indian society, making some Christians believe that this was proof Islam was the true religion.
- India's decentralized society was better equipped to absorb the shock of invasion while retaining its core values.
- Turkic rulers of Anatolia welcomed converts, granting rewards and opportunities for government office.
- Islamic believes such as monotheism, sexual modesty, and equality for all were unable to be absorbed into polytheistic, caste-system Hinduism in India, but Turkish practices, such as more gender-equal life, were able to be incorporated.

I might've missed something here or there so feel free to comment with additional answers or questions to what I posted.

Isabella Jarosz

29/10/2014 00:14:42

This looks pretty accurate, but I would just add that far more Turkic-speaking people settled in Anatolia than India. Otherwise, it looks great!

Kiyana

29/10/2014 09:26:23

Here's my shot at MQ2, "How does the core message of Islam compare with that of Judaism and Christianity?"

Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, was a monotheistic faith that held one almighty deity as "the compassionate, the caring, master of the day of reckoning". Like the Jewish prophets of the Old Testament, the holy book of islam, the Quran, demanded social justice and laid out a prescription for its implementation.

Could someone help me with this. I know there's probably a lot more, but i'm having a hard time distinguishing important differences... They seemed to hold a lot of the same values?

Isabella Jarosz

29/10/2014 10:11:28

Here's how I answered it, but if anyone has anything else to add, please feel free to.
− Like Judaism and Christianity, Islam was radically monotheistic, presenting an all-powerful God as good, just, and merciful, and will come on the “day of reckoning”. However, Islam scorned the Christian notion of the Trinity.
− Muhammad was stated to be “the seal of the prophets”, God’s final revelation to humankind. Thus, Islam was not a call to a new faith, but rather, an invitation to return to one based in Christianity and Judaism.
− Submission to Allah appeared to be the primary obligation of believers and the means of achieving a place in paradise after death; however, this submission was not only a spiritual act, but involved the creation of a new society.
− Like the Jewish prophets of the Old Testament, the Quran demanded social justice and laid out a prescription for its implementation.

aidan

29/10/2014 10:15:48

i feel that fasting is definitely a part of all three religions.the fourth pillar of Islam required fasting during Ramadan, and in Judaism there is passover and Yom-kuppor. and in Christianity there is lent all of which are forms of fasting.

Bethany

29/10/2014 11:25:07

But lent isn't fasting in regard to food.

Ana Larrazolo

29/10/2014 16:39:03

I agree with Bethany but I understand what you're hinting to, I suppose giving up a small form of temptation almost I don't know if Im saying that right... but yes that values and morals parallel not only through these three but across many of them.

Allie Elkhadem

29/10/2014 10:17:51

I agree that they both do hold a lot of the same values. So here's how I answered it:
1. All monotheistic with a single caring God
2. Muhammad was another prophet and placed himself with the prophets of both Judaism and Christianity (Jesus, Abraham..)
3. Quran demanded social justice like the Jewish prophets of Old Testament
4. Islam claimed to be a return to the original faith that Abraham originally proclaimed
5. Islam did not agree with the notion of the Trinity which Christian proclaims
6. Women were equal in God's eye in both Christianity and Islam (I don't know about Judaism. Does someone know?)
7. In both Islam and Christianity there is a heaven and a hell

Kiyana

29/10/2014 10:24:19

Thank you guys! As far as women being seen as equal, eventually in Islam the story of Adam and Eve was altered to blame, like in the judeo-christian versions...? Would it be more correct then to say that they were not seen as equals?

Allie Elkhadem

29/10/2014 10:28:42

That's a good point so I think it would be more accurate to say "in both Christianity and Islam women were depicted as equals in their respective holy texts; however, women were not treated as equals and eventually this gender inequality was rationalized using the text". Hopefully that makes sense

Ana Larrazolo

29/10/2014 16:44:21

I think for your fourth point it would be better if you said Muslims acknowledged themselves as relatives of Abraham, because the immediate connection or original religion Abraham proclaimed was Judaism and I believe Muhammad was aware of that BUT I may be way wrong

Allie Elkhadem

29/10/2014 10:32:03

A margin question I was struggling with was number 7: In what ways were Sufi Muslims critical of mainstream Islam? My answer is:
1. Critical of more scholarly and legalistic practitioners and the sharia- Sufis believed that sharia did not help believers get closer to God
2. Critical of worldly success of Islamic empire- believed that it was distracting from spirituality

I just feel like I'm missing something.

aidan

29/10/2014 11:04:57

they also believed that the ulma(religious scholars) had been "compromised" due to their interaction with the worldly and corrupt governments.

Bingham

29/10/2014 11:37:58

A word or two of advise, if I may so bold; 1st & 8th period WHAPers are going to want to leave behind a good set of notes and charts from your study time this week. This weekend, if you're smart, you'll move on to Strayer 12 and the Mongols. You'll need something to review about Islam Sunday night/Monday morning after your head has moved on. Now is the time to do it while it's fresh and it can help you with the Islam test in any case.

Anticipate the prompt. What might the qualifier be? What region might be stipulated, and what are you going to do in the case of each of the regions being the stipulated region? Do you have notes to determine a similarity and 2 differences? Will they help you find at least seven items of evidence to support the sims. & diffs?

Your greatest fear is not knowing what to say in your essay. Take away that fear now.

Allie Elkhadem

29/10/2014 12:11:51

Mr. Bingham, I realized that 2nd period has you on Monday so does that mean that our class will be writing the essay this Monday?

Bingham

29/10/2014 14:32:16

Oh, right. Duh! Yes. So my advice is for 1st and 2nd. 8th will write a Mongol Comparative.

Charlie Wannall

29/10/2014 14:53:26

So I don't really feel like sitting here and typing them all out in one go so here's the first Eight Margin Questions:

MQ1-In what ways did the early history of Islam reflect its early arab origins?
Interestingly enough I found this one the hardest to pick out the relevant information because there is, naturally, a lot of background info but here's what I got:

-Early Islam was made up of mostly pastoral people as was the majority of the population of Arabia. (Nomadic Arabs known as Bedouins.)
-Arabia sat in stride of many large important trade routs such as the silk road which brought merchants from places like Europe who's values differed from those of the native Arabs.
-Arabia's proximity to both the Sassanid and Byzantine empires created familiarity with the larger world.
-Many Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians lived amongst the Arabs and their monotheistic ideas became widely known bringing about the acknowledgement of the "preeminent position of Allah".
-Allah was identified with Yaweh, the Jewish high god, and saw themselves as children of Abraham.

MQ2-How does the core message of Islam compare with that of Judaism and Christianity?
I don't think it is an answer to THIS question but I think its worth pointing out some similarities between the messengers of Christianity and Islam (and actually in many ways the Buddah as well): Both (all three) were concerned with religious corruption and social inequalities in their respective times and places, both underwent a period of meditation or social withdraw and finally experienced a powerful religious experience (generally an interaction with god) leaving them convinced they were the messenger of god.

But back to the real MQ-
-Muhammad's message was shockingly monotheistic to the polytheistic Arabs but familiar to the residing Jews and Christians in Arabia.
-Islam, WHILE acknowledging both Moses and Jesus as prophets, scorned the Christian notion of the trinity and established that all previous prophets were deluded in their interpretations of God's word and Muhhamed, the last "seal" of the profits was correct in saying that Allah is the one true God. (Not so much of a new faith but a call to an old and pure Abrahamic religion from which the previous religions had diverted.)
-Islam, similarly to Chr. and Jud., required a submission to God, specifically Allah, although Islamic submission was much more social and practical then the personal submissions of Jud. and Chr.
-The Qur'an's denouncing of prevailing social practices of Mecca such as the hoarding of wealth, the exploitation of the poor, corrupt business deals etc. ect. ect. urged on not only the new faith of Islam but the creation of an entirely new society accomplished by the fact that Islam was supported by and reformed the State. (religion as well as social structure.)
-Islam created the Umma, the community of believers. (This is one of my favorite parallelisms in history! Just like in the world of Christendom, there was a unified identity associated with Islam but that generic label contributed to the Sunni/Shia split much like the Roman Catholic/Easter Orthodox Split. All sides believed they were correct and the other branch was deluded/strayed from the path but when faced with out side conflict, were able to set aside differences and unify/identify with their religion against the foreign Entity.)
-Women had a spiritually equal and honored place in society.
-Islam centered on the notion of "jihad" (struggle). Both an internal struggle against sin (greater jihad) and the physical armed struggle with the infidel (lesser jihad or jihad of the sword).
-And finally, the five pillars of Islam:
-Absolute monotheism and a final revelation. "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of God."
-Prayer. Five times a day at specific times performed while facing the Kaaba in Mecca. (indulging accompaniying rituals of prayer)
-Generously giving wealth to the poor to maintain the community and help the needy.
-A moth of Fasting (Ramadan.)
-And finally, the Hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca, symbolic of Muhammad's reclaiming of Mecca.

MQ3-In what ways was the rise of Islam revolutionary both in theory and in practice?

-Islam was not originally embrace by those inhabiting it's cradle of Mecca. (Direct comparison to Buddhism in India.)
-Islam developed in a very culturally diverse society and was based solely on faith and beliefs as opposed to class and race. (This was a big factor in why it was able to expand so rapidly.)
-Islam expected to coexist with it's Abrahamic relatives of Jud. and Chr. because of their common monotheistic backgrounds but when groups of Jews allied with Muhammad's enemies, he acted harshly to suppress them and redirected prayer away from Jerusalem and towards Mecca.
-Islam's promise of material gain through trade, appeal of a new religious faith, end of warring tribes caused by the sense of Umma, successful military action, and the promi

Charlie Wannall (Pt 2)

29/10/2014 14:55:44

-Islam's promise of material gain through trade, appeal of a new religious faith, end of warring tribes caused by the sense of Umma, successful military action, and the promise of marriage alliances contributed to the consolidation of Islamic control throughout Arabia.
-Despite the occasional clashing of political and religious agendas, there was no system of separation of religious rule and political authorities/leaders/workers. The religious and moral system was synonymous with the civil system, both filling under and practicing Sharia law.

MQ4-Why were Arabs able to construct such a huge empire so quickly?

-Arabs continuing the long enduring pattern of tribal raids into surrounding civilization were now able to, with the newly established organized state of their own with central command, mobilize the military potential of the entire Arab population.
-The combination of the Byzantine and Persian empires weakened states due to conflict with each other and their underestimation of the rapidly growing Islamic empire led to the eventual defeats/partial conquering of these empires by Islam.
-Early military victories of the Arab empire in places such as Spain, Northern Africa, Southern France, the Indus River Valley, and major oasis towns in Central Asia not only directly expanded the Arab empire (like, duh) but also validated the claim that God, Allah, was on the side of the Arab Empire which inspired confidence in converts that they were joining the "winning team", so to speak.
-Success at the battle of Talas River made possible the conversion of Central Asia's Turkic-speaking peoples to Islam.
-After Muhammad's death, the unity of the Umma became fragile and external expansive conquest provided a common task for the community.
-Merchant leaders' yearning to capture profitable trade routes and agricultural regions along with individual beliefs that military expansion would lead to wealth and social promotion allowed for the harnessing of the energies of the Arab Empire.
-Islam's recognition of other faiths as dhimmis, establishing garrison towns, and local elites/bureaucratic structures being incorporated into Islam all in an effort to reduce the destructive and exploitive characteristics of conquering people aided to the expansion of the Arab empire.

MQ5- What accounts for the widespread conversion to Islam?

-A lot of aspects of Islam such as monotheism, praying and ritualistic ceremonies, fasting, and the idea of heaven, hell, and a final judgment were already familiar to Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians.
-Islam from early on was associated with and sponsored by a powerful State, thus victories of the Arab empire were used to discredit the powers of the "old gods" and attracted many to Allah and Islam.
-even though they were not forcibly converted, there were many incentives for conversion for those already living in the Islamic state such as a better life for slaves and POWs (particularly in Persia), exemption from the Jizya (a tax imposed on non-believers), a religion friendly to commerce and the fact that even though it was not necessary, conversion to Islam provided many people with increased social mobility to "move up to social food chain" and gain bureaucratic and gov't positions.
-The Arab empire provided a huge and protected arena for trade.
-Large scaled Arab migrations to areas such as Egypt, North Africa, and Iraq cause Islam to take hold in those regions.
-Even though Islam encountered vigorous resistance in places such as the Berbers of N. Africa, about 80% of the population living in the Arab empire converted to Islam while retaining their original language.

MQ6-What is the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam?

-The rift between Sunni and Shia Islam was caused by the idea of a unified Islam being threatened by the enlargement of the Umma and the absence of Muhammad's leadership bringing about the issue of who should lead the Caliphate.
-Sunni Muslims believe that Caliphs are rightful political military leaders selected by the Islamic community while the Shia believed that the leaders of Islam should derive from the bloodline of Ali (the fourth caliph) and his son Huasya. (Both blood relatives of Muhammad and both of whom were killed by their enemies.)
-Sunnis believed that religious authority derived from the general public while the Shia branch of Islam invested religious authority in the Imam. (YET ANOTHER comparison between the rift in the world of Islam and the rift in the world of Christendom.)
-Shia Muslims saw themselves as the defenders of the oppressed and Sunnis were the advocates of the established order.
-Shia Islam developed a Messianic element while the Sunnis did not.

MQ7-In what ways were Sufi Muslims critical of mainstream Islam?

-They saw the success of the Islamic civilization as a distortion/deviation from the purer spirituality of Muhammad's time.
-Sufis criticized the mainstream Islamic community's attachment to the material world.
-Sufis were sha

Charlie Wannall (Pt 3)

29/10/2014 14:56:54

-Sufis were sharply critical of the more scholarly and legalistic practitioners of sharia law because they think that teaching law and "correct behavior", while providing a useful outline for daily life, does not bring one closer to Allah. (Some Sufis even went as far to say that the Qur'an is not as important as being with God.)
-Sufis felt that many of the Ulama had been compromised by their association with world and corrupt governments.

MQ8- How did the rise of Islam change the lives of women?
-"Women, with the rise of Islam, were given a mix of rights, privileges and restrictions."
-The Qur'an as absolute spiritual equals but socially women were vastly inferior to men especially in Marriage.
-Women were allowed privileges such as property rights and the power to divorce a husband if she was denied sexual relations but, of course, all of these practices were enjoyed to a lesser degree than men.
-Women experienced growing restrictions as the civilization of Islam flourished in the Abbasid empire such as eventually being asked to pray at home and be veiled while in public. (This separation of sexes was carried further by the caliph Mansur when he ordered a separate bridge for women to be built over the Euphrates in the new capitol of Baghdad.)
-In general, seclusion from society was more prominent in upper class women because the measures taken to seclude women by the caliphs and men such as separation of quarters for women did not affect lower-class women simply because they did not have these luxuries to begin with so they could not be taken away. Seclusion with still prominent with veiling and separation of praying but less so in the lower class women. (This is another reason Islam was able to spread to quickly because it was very attractive not only to the lower classes of societies but also the women.)
-While not exclusive to Islam, the practice of honour killing and female circumcision were present in the Arab world.
-Because of the change in interpretation of the story of Adam and Eve in the Hadith that takes the Judeo-Christian position that Eve tempted Adam, women in general were blamed for the expulsion from Eden and the pain of childbirth.
-The world of Sufi Islam with the practice of mystical union with Allah provided and allowed for a greater role for women in society that in mainstream Islam.
-In Shia Islam, women teachers of the faith (mullahs) were considered equal to their male counterparts. Women were also allowed further knowledge in academic subjects and to become literate.
-Visits to tombs of major Islamic figures as well as the ritual of the public bath provided some opportunity for women to interact with other women outside their immediate family circle.

OKAY. SO. I think for the most part I've got everything I put in my notes. If I've missed anything or accidentally put something that doesn't belong let me know! Hopefully by tomorrow morning after another hour and half of typing I'll have up the last three margin questions (along with the monster four way comparison) and the five big picture questions!

Ana Larrazolo

29/10/2014 16:16:36

Ok so for this one you might want to add that:
-woman had right of inheritance
-men were allowed to participate in regulated polygamy,
-the Quran defined marriage between to consenting parties making marriage illegitimate
-the Quran banned infanticide
-men could have sexual relations with consenting female slaves under the condition that if she was impregnated any child born would be free and the mother would as well as soon as her master died
-the patriarchal and misogynistic traditions derived of Middle Eastern cultures than from the Quran but soon gained a religious rationale on the writing of Muslim thinkers
-negative views of woman presented them as weak, deficient, and a sexually charged threat to men and social stability (which you touch base on with Adam and Even, which I added that to my notes :) )

Charlie Wannall (Pt 4)

29/10/2014 14:57:36

--Optional Slightly Opinionated but Hopefully Evidence Based Stuff--
Before I end this post, I wanted to point out some context for Islam for anyone who's interested because I know personally after some thought I have revised my opinion on the religion and culture. I think the reason Islam gets a "bad rep", to speak candidly is because people often don't realize the importance of time. At the time, Islam was actually one of the most tolerant religions towards other religions and women. Not tolerant by our standards at all, but arguably more so that it's European and East Asian counterparts. Women got more rights and privileges than in other societies even though they were not as much as men. Still, better than nothing. And I think that's the problem. People look at islam and say wow women were treated horribly and people of other religions were killed or taxed. Yes, that's true, but they either overlook or leave out the part that it was still better than everywhere else. In no other religion at the time were women totally equal to men in any way let alone spiritually and there was a period of time where if you weren't Christian, there was no option to pay the tax. That was that. The part that I think is MISSING is that the Qur'an and the religion of Islam has no "new testament" so to speak. Times have been a changing since 600 C.E. and I think that if Islam updated its beliefs to be more modernized in terms of standards while still retaining the principles of the old times (much like the new testament did with the principles of the old testament) it would be on a much nearer playing field to other religions today. I don't, however think this will happen simply because of how the Qur'an was conceived. While it is present in other religions, in no other religion is it the general consensus that the holy book, in this case the Qur'an, is the absolute word of God. Yes there are some people the DO believe the old testament is the word of God period end of story, but for the majority of the Christian population accepts the fact that the Bible was written down by GUYS who God talked to and thus it is not "set in stone" and can be changed hence the new testament. Even roman catholic priests can marry now which, as we all know, was forbidden in the times of the H.R.E. However, with a religion like Islam where the Qur'an is generally taken to be the word of God, to change it would be to say that Allah is flawed and Islam has been flawed for centuries. I doubt this will ever happen. The reason I include this mini essay at the end of this forum post is mainly because I think (and like Charles swan the minute I say this Ill be proven wrong) that many of our opinions of Islam are coloured by our views of modern Islam. I know personally I had a hard time grasping the section on women because I have always learned that "women are treated horribly and ahrrrr" which today is true but comparatively at the time, is not a black and white fact. I hope this, if nothing stimulated some of you to go think about stuff, but I really hope it helped clear up some of the "colors" we have about islam and allowed us to study in the context of the time period. It's very possible that Im the only that had that trouble with this chapter and feels this way in which case.....heres a rant about islam....but on the off chance that some of you felt the way I did, I hope this helped in any way shape or form. :)

Ana Larrazolo

29/10/2014 15:48:33

Yes, I agree with you we attach one story for all Muslims and all Middle Easterners and we assume that they're all extremist, sexist, wife beating, suiciding bombing, terrorist plotting, turban wearing and bearded men. And for the woman I know that are generalized as very suppressed and get burned and beaten and most iconically are taken of their rights for wearing a Hijab. Especially to white western feminist which is a huge problem, it terms of respect for modesty and respect for sexuality, but that's a whole other topic.
It's really ironic to me because there are American Christian extremist that are terrorist but they aren't at the power that Muslim terrorist are because like Strayer said the Arab Empire EARLY on made the associated of the "Mosque supporting the State" in comparison to our government system, yes we do have somewhat correlations between Christian values and our laws like abortion and homosexual marriage and the rest of socially conservative policies many right wingers support. But, we are supposed to have the church and state separate, of course. There are many strong parallels that the US media ridicule's of the Middle East and Islam that the US does, and we assume that all this tension is out of Jihad and they don't know a thing about the 1979 Revolution. But this is WAAAAAYYY ahead of the time period. But as you were speaking about the Quran I think there are people who take it too literal or exploit the Quran, just like they do in Christianity.

Ana Larrazolo

29/10/2014 15:53:52

HOLD UP
Let me clarify myself cause I already see where I messed up my verbiage... when I was saying that Strayer explains that Islam supported the State and that's why Middle Eastern Muslim terrorist have more power I didn't mean that it was like a perfect formula/setup for a terrorist but more it provided more of an opportunity for religious terrorists..
sorry if I'm so confusing and rambling all over the place.

Islam & the World, the World & Islam Strayer 11

Leave a Reply.

Bingham

Archives

Categories