China on the World Stage

10/10/2014

James O.

12/10/2014 03:19:38

So this chapter is emphasizing back and forth interaction and resulting change between China and its close/distant neighbors?

James O.

12/10/2014 03:20:41

SORRY. Chapters don't emphasize *Strayer emphasizes*

Bingham

12/10/2014 03:31:03

Yes, I think that is accurate, and a good way to study and organize your notes.

Savanna

12/10/2014 04:40:23

Okay so here's my stab @ margin question 1 (sorry it's a little messy.....)

Why are the centuries of the Tang & Song dynasties referred to as the golden age?

The Song & Tang dynasties were a time of peace, prosperity, and happiness in China.

-The arts flourished, with poetry, ceramics, literature, and paintings becoming increasingly popular
-There was an explosion of scholarship and people being educated which gave rise to Neo confucianism (combining confucian, doaist, and buddhist elements)
-There was a revolutionary state structure that persisted for about 1000 years that included 6 branches of office and a censorate that oversaw the performance of all the brances
-Books became widely available as the printing press was invented and exams became more competitive and had higher standards
-It was the most urbanized country in the world at the time, with a rapidly growing population. The people of Chang An, the capital, enjoyed high standards of living
-There was a variety of goods and people in the capital due to the silk road which introduced new cultures, religions, and philosophies that made China a cosmopolitan hub of ideas and wealth
-The country was connected through cheap transportation which made it easier to communicate
- They had breakthrough in agriculture and iron technologies as well
-Their shipbuilding & navigation technologies were so far in advance in comparison to other countries or empires that were present at the time.
-The invention of the compass and gunpowder also set China ahead.
-People also started producing for the market (commercialization) and encouraged the use of paper money.
-Their economy flourished under trade, education, technology, and the arts

James O.

12/10/2014 04:53:09

Sounds great to me! Thank you for tackling this one!

Bingham

12/10/2014 05:15:04

Good analysis Savanna. Now see if you can group this data into categories/units of analysis.

Bingham

12/10/2014 05:21:18

My own prompt got me thinking, maybe you guys could look. In this period, China's economy (especially by the Song) really became commercialized, looking very much like a capitalist system. People worked for wages, often in the form of currency, there were loans and letters of credit, entrepreneurship was tolerated, if not encouraged, by the government.

This economic revival explains much of the literary and artistic revival. Does Strayer mention this? I don't have my book at the moment.

James O.

12/10/2014 04:50:40

What exactly does strayer mean in MQ 3 when he asks "What assumptions underlay the tribute system?"

Bingham

12/10/2014 05:13:47

"Assumptions" as in underlying ideas, motives, perceived needs; like that.

Here's how my brain would tackle that question.

Several assumptions underlay the tribute system, such as that China was the “middle kingdom,” the center of the world, infinitely superior to the “barbarian” peoples beyond its borders; that China was self-sufficient, requiring little from the outside world, while barbarians sought access to China’s wealth and wisdom; and that the Chinese might provide access to their wealth and wisdom under certain controlled conditions in the hope that it would help to civilize the barbarians.

The tribute system was a set of practices designed to facilitate this civilizing contact. It required non-Chinese authorities to acknowledge Chinese superiority and their own subordinate place in a Chinese-centered world order. In exchange for expressions of submission, the Chinese emperor would grant foreigners permission to trade in China and provide them with gifts, which were often worth more than the tribute offered by the foreigners.

The system was an effort to regulate relations with neighboring states and groups of nomads on the borders of the empire.

Notice my answer is descriptive of the system, but the focus is on motives. If you want to drill down in your thinking a bit, consider my now familiar generalization about WH being about two essential elements - comparison & change. This is clearly a change question. And to the extent that history is driven by human thoughts and actions, assumptions, motives, potential benefits, etc. are always of interest. And that is why assumptions and motives and perceived benefits are great ways to approach POV in the DBQ.

AS for China itself, this question does a nice job of making you notice an often noted Chinese government characteristic that spans time and dynasties: the message is never direct. The rhetoric is always subtle and nuanced. On the surface, it would seem a tribute system is merely a taxation program. But that's much too obvious when considering the Chinese. In fact, as you can see, it isn't a tribute system at all. They don't need tribute, they're the richest kingdom on earth. It's control, and "civilizing", and pacification under the guise of taxation.

Bingham

12/10/2014 09:20:11

"he let out a long sigh of despair" *sigh

Isabella Jarosz

12/10/2014 10:15:10

While answering MQ2 (In what ways did women's lives change during the Tang and Song dynasties?), it became clear to me that this question is both a change-over-time and a (slight) comparison. As shown by evidence, Tang China, while still slightly oppressive, was not as restricting as the Song China. Song China also offered new opportunities to women, as well as being restricting.

TANG DYNASTY
− elite Chinese women were influenced by the women of the Steppe Nomads (less restrictive lives). Thus, northern women participated in social life with greater freedom. Paintings emerged of aristocratic women, and Queen Mother of the West (Daoist deity) was widely worshipped by female Daoist priests and practitioners
− foot-binding spread widely among elite families

SONG DYNASTY
− Confucian writers highlighted the subordination of women to men and the need to keep males/females separate in every domain of life
− women were viewed as a distraction to men’s pursuits of a contemplative and introspective life
-remarriage of widows was condemned and a source of shame
-foot-binding: tight wrapping of feet causing intense pain
-foot-binding became more widespread among all classes in the Song dynasty, i.e. not just among the elite
-new views of beauty emphasized small size, delicacy, and reticence
-women restricted to inner-quarters
-rapidly commercializing economy undermined the position of women in the textile industry. men took jobs that once belonged to women
-other opportunities for women emerged: women ran restaurants, sold veggies/fish, worked as maids/cooks/dressmakers
-growing prosperity of elite families funneled increasing number of women into roles as concubines, entertainers, courtesans, prostitutes
-ready availability reduced the ability of wives to negotiate as equals with their husbands
-set women against each other
-property rights expanded, could control own dowries and inherit property
-lower-ranking but ambitious officials strongly encouraged the education of women

Bingham

12/10/2014 13:18:37

Great thinking Isabella!

Isabella Jarosz

12/10/2014 10:35:03

Here’s my stab at MQ3: “How did the Chinese and their nomadic neighbors to the north view each other?”. I organized it in a T-chart labeled “Nomadic view of China/dependence on China” and “Chinese view of nomads/dependence on nomads”. Some of this is very opinion-based, so you may not agree with the placement of some of the information. If so, feel free to comment.

NOMADIC VIEW OF CHINA/DEPENDENCE ON CHINA:
-needed grain and other agricultural products from China
-leaders developed a taste for Chinese manufactured and luxury goods, with which they could attract and reward followers
-traded, raided, and extorted china in order to obtain resources
-threat came from Chinese: China directed their military force deep into the steppes

CHINESE VIEW OF NOMADS/DEPENDENCE ON NOMADS:
-pressure from the steppes and the intrusion of nomadic peoples were constant factors in Chinese historical development
-built Great Wall to keep nomads out
-China unwilling to allow pastoral peoples easy access to trading opportunities
-needed nomads for horse supply (essential for Chinese military)
-amber, skins, furs, hides were of value and China (from the steppes)
-pastoral nomads controlled much of the Silk Road trading network, which funneled goods from the West into China (China needed these goods, and thus, needed to maintain a good relationship or hold some control over the nomadic people in order to obtain these goods)

Isabella Jarosz

12/10/2014 10:35:43

Clarification: the information is not opinion-based, the placement is.

Adele Carlson

12/10/2014 10:48:55

This is really helpful. Thanks! I would also add under the Chinese view of nomads that while they did need the nomads, they also saw the nomads as a military threat.

Bingham

12/10/2014 13:23:07

This is great. My copy, the red book, has this in place of that margin question; slightly different.

In what ways did China and the nomads influence each other? I like "influence" vs. "view" because I think it gets more to the spirit of the idea. Here's my answer.

When nomadic peoples actually ruled over parts of China, some of them adopted Chinese ways. But on the whole, Chinese culture had only a modest impact on the nomadic people of the northern steppes. Few of these pastoral societies were incorporated into the Chinese state for any significant length of time, and most lived in areas where Chinese-style agriculture was simply impossible.

On the Chinese side, elements of steppe culture had some influence on those parts of northern China that were periodically conquered and ruled by nomadic peoples; for example, some high-ranking members of the Chinese imperial family led their troops in battle in the style of Turkic warriors.

Hank Bond

14/10/2014 14:07:57

When you say that Chinese culture had only a modest impact on Northern nomads that makes me worried I misunderstood. The way I understood it is that Strayer says that the back and forth interaction between China and nomads impacted each greatly in that the trade of horses and furs to China from the steppes and fine goods from China to the steppes brought the nations closer. Not always in a good way of course because their constant invasions of each others land also impact each side greatly. Ultimately these interactions meant each people were heavily influenced, sometimes integrated into the others societies.

Bridget Fenner

16/10/2014 16:56:41

(Directed at Hank) Sorry this is so late, but Bingham is referencing on page 251 when strayer says, "Chinese culture had only a modest impact on the nomadic people of the northern steppes." It's located right next to MQ#6; just think big picture in relation to MQ#3

Allie

12/10/2014 10:58:11

On page 256 in the yellow book, under the section "Japan & China", Strayer writes "When wise men are entrusted with office, the sound of praise arises.... they will surely be managed." Is this a quote form the Seventeen Article Constitution? If not what is this from?

Adele Carlson link

12/10/2014 11:06:01

Is is part to the 17 article constitution

Adele Carlson

12/10/2014 11:07:35

**^ It is

Allie Elkhadem

12/10/2014 12:12:29

Thank you!

Allie

12/10/2014 12:04:21

Here is my answer to MQ # 10- What facilitated the rooting of Buddhism within China?

- Collapse of Han Dynasty
- Chaos discredited Confucianism
-Nomadic rulers found Buddhism helpful since it was foreign
- Elite families constructed large monasteries
- Buddhims provided some comfort despite the collapsing society
- Monasteried provided services to ordinary people
- Buddhism was associated with access to magical powers
- Monks presented Buddhism in terms that Chinese could relate to

Kimani

12/10/2014 12:22:21

looks pretty solid, allie!! but, correct me if im wrong, i think that "sui emperor wendi constructed monastaries at the base of the 5 chinese sacred mountains and that further identified buddhism with chinese traditional culture" should also be in there

Allie

12/10/2014 12:23:50

I missed that! Thanks Kimani, that should definitely be in there

Kimani

12/10/2014 12:24:45

no prob, bob!

Allie

12/10/2014 12:25:43

Here is my answer to MQ # 11: What were the major sources of opposition to Buddhism within China?
- Challenge to imperial authority
- Resentment to enormous wealth
- Buddhism was of foreign origin & offensive to Confucianism & Daoism; elite had a growing resentment towards foreign culture : Buddhism undermined traditional family system

Kimani

12/10/2014 12:47:04

ok, i dont mean to keep revising your answers like some kind of weird editor, but i think you should add a few points to your answer. Again, correct me if you find any faults.
-there was an increase of upper class xenophobes that wanted to go back to the purity of earlier times
-the Chinese state created imperial decrees to get monks and nuns to go back to being tax paying citizens
- 1000's of monasteries, shrines, and temples were destroyed or put to public use
-buddhists were forbidden to use gold, silver, gems, copper and iron in constructing their images

Bingham

12/10/2014 13:26:27

Don't apologize. There really is such a thing as constructive criticism, and it does not imply personal insult. Critique is essential to learning! And your comments are both appropriate and accurate.

Allie link

12/10/2014 12:42:27

I finally finished my mind map for the chapter! Tell me if you see anything wrong with it or I'm missing vital information. Helpful it helps!

Here's another link just in case: https://cacoo.com/diagrams/Kk3CLjWtDW85Lm7p-8E165.png

(They should both work)

Allie

12/10/2014 12:45:30

Here's the other link because the first one wasn't working:

https://cacoo.com/diagrams/Kk3CLjWtDW85Lm7p

Bingham

12/10/2014 13:29:04

Awesome again! Yay mind maps! Keep doing this Allie, I promise it will pay off.

Bingham

12/10/2014 13:33:04

One last post before I drift away....
Imaginary margin questions....hmmmm.
Compare and contrast the ways that Japan and Korea experienced Chinese influence.I mean, that's totally predictable, right?

Korea was for a time under the political control of China, while Japan was not. (don’t do this on an essay!)

Both Korea and Japan participated in the Chinese tribute system as vassal states, although Japan withdrew from the system after the tenth century.

The cultural elite of both states borrowed belief systems from China, especially Confucianism and Buddhism.

Both Korea and Japan drew heavily on Chinese governmental models, including ideas about the emperor and his court, administrative institutions, governing techniques, and the examination system.

Both Korea and Japan were influenced by Chinese artistic and literary styles.

Both Korea and Japan maintained their own distinctive cultures, despite substantial Chinese influence.

Unlike Korea, Japan’s adoption of numerous elements of Chinese civilization was wholly voluntary.

Japanese women, unlike Korean women, largely escaped the more oppressive features of Chinese Confucian culture.

Augi

12/10/2014 14:01:48

When Strayer is talking about China's influence on Japan he talks about serfdom. I know that it's a history jargon word, but I never fully understood it. Could someone explain it to me?

Allie

12/10/2014 14:13:26

So a serf is a person who works a person's land. The serf is required to do this labor and work the owner's property. The serf is included in the property (when the land is sold from one owner to another the serf continues working on the property). Serfs are very similar to slaves, but the major difference I saw was that slaves were property of a person and serfs were more tied to one distinct piece of land.

Allie

12/10/2014 15:07:03

Here's my answer to BP #2: Based on this chapter, how would you respond to the idea that China was a self-contained or isolated civilization?

- This chapter mostly supports the idea that China was not self-contained. Strayer even states that one major misconception of Chinese history is that China has been portrayed as self-contained.
- Evidence that supports the idea that China was not self- contained: Chinese trading of goods and ideas with Afro-Eurasia in trading (both Indian Ocean trading and the Silk Road) like Buddhism and integration of nomadic cultural elements. China also interacted immensely win Korea, Vietnam, and Japan.

Augi

13/10/2014 13:47:03

Lookin' good Allie here's some things I would add:
-Western music dancing foods etc were popular during the Tang dynasty
-their technologies spread and were used to create new technologies like the cannon
-also they took rice from Vietnam

cristina

14/10/2014 13:54:42

just in case anyone wants to argue the other side of the question (ie that china WAS self-contained), you could use the theory of the tribute system as evidence. an underlying belief of the system was that china was a self sufficient empire.
generally when i answer big pics that ask you to argue a position i find it useful to answer from both sides of the argument :)

Allie

12/10/2014 15:39:46

Here's another one of my answers.

Big Picture Question #5: How did China influence the world beyond East Africa? How was China itself transformed by its encounters with a wider world?

How it was transformed from the wider world:
- Buddhism from India greatly influenced China; both elites and commoners adopted the religion; it even gained state support for a while
- Parts of China became cosmopolitan in nature with increased trade and China; Southern China became more based on producing fro export

How China influenced the wider world:
- China was very important in Afro-Eurasian trade; silk was widely desired & highly sought after
- Chinese technologies spurred innovations across Eurasia in accordance with local needs; Example: gunpowder -> cannon technology

Bethany

13/10/2014 14:31:50

My attempt at :MQ9- In what ways did China participate in the world of Eurasian commerce and exchange, and with what outcomes?

-Chinese innovations such as papermaking, printing, gunpowder, and solar salt production were diffused far and wide, often stimulating further innovation in distant lands in accordance with local needs.

-These innovations often had other implications
: Papermaking and printing had implications for mass literacy,
bureacracy, scholarship, spread of religion, and the exchange of
info.
: Magnetic compass and improved ships made Indian Ocean trade
more efficient.

-Chinese prosperity stimulated commercial life and market based behavior all across Eurasia
: Chinese products found many eager buyers
: China's economy provided a market for many foreign products

- China adopted new technologies due to Eurasian commerce and exchange
: cultivation and processing of cotton and sugar
: adoption of fast ripening and drought resistant strain of
Vietnamese rice, which allowed for a productive rice agriculture
in dry Southern China.
-led to population growth in Southern China, eventually
overtaking the traditional Northern Chinese centers.

-Some Chinese innovations such as gunpowder were stimulated by cross-cultural interaction.

-China's participation in Indian Ocean trade also effected the civilization.
: Chinese cities became cosmopolitan centers
: Cultural tensions occasionally led to violence
: Southern China's economy became export based vs.
subsistence based.
: Merchants achieved a degree of social acceptance

Bethany

14/10/2014 15:01:37

Was the tribute system around during the Han dynasty?

Bingham

14/10/2014 23:37:10

Nope

Bethany

15/10/2014 13:02:19

Could someone please post their response to MQ7? I want to make sure I didn't overlook anything.

Savanna

15/10/2014 15:22:15

MQ 7:

I'm assuming it's the one from the yellow book?

In what diff. ways did Japanese and Korean women experience the pressures of Confucian orthodoxy?

-Before the Chinese influence of Confucianism in Korea, a Korean woman could give birth and raise her children in her parents' home, where she was joined by her husband. However, Confucian orthodoxy stated that a married woman belonged to her husband's family, and deeply discouraged any of the former.
-Korean customs like funeral rites, remarriage, and female inheritance of property vanished under the pressure of Confucian orthodoxy.
-The idea of primary and secondary wives also set women against each other, creating tension and jealousy within a family unit.

-Japanese women, however, managed to escape most of the oppressive features of Confucian culture.
-They were allowed to remarry, could go outside the house, and did not adhere to foot binding.
-The most powerful wave of influence the Chinese had over the Japanese was during a period were Chinese women had relative freedom, the Tang Dynasty.
- They could inherit property, live with their own families, and could make or break marriages easily.

When Japanese women eventually lost their statuses, it was less to do with Confucian orthodoxy and more to do with the emergence of the samurais. Korean women were oppressed the most strictly out of all other East Asian countries in terms of being held against a high-ranking and oppressive patriarchy that was backed up by Confucianism.

What did you get? Tell me if i missed something/got something wrong!

Bethany

15/10/2014 15:45:58

Aghhh I'm sorry, I was looking at the wrong question. I meant MQ6- the one about the different ways Korea, Japan, and Vietnam were influenced by China and how they responded. Sorry :(

Bethany

15/10/2014 15:46:43

But awesome answer to MQ7!

Bingham

15/10/2014 23:57:34

This one? In what different ways did Korea, Vietnam, and Japan experience and respond to Chinese influence?

I really don't like to have pity on mid-week posts, but I'll make an exception. That way when you guys bomb this test I can smirk and smugly say, "all these were on the forum. So what's your excuse?" Evil right?

Both Korea and Vietnam achieved political independence while participating fully in the tribute system as vassal states. Japan was never conquered by the Chinese but did participate for some of its history in the tribute system as a vassal state.

The cultural elite of Korea, Vietnam, and Japan borrowed heavily from China—Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, administrative techniques, the examination system, artistic and literary styles—even as their own cultures remained distinct.

Both Korea and Vietnam experienced some colonization by ethnic Chinese settlers.

Unlike Korea or Japan, the cultural heartland of Vietnam was fully incorporated into the Chinese state for over a thousand years, far longer than corresponding parts of Korea. This political dominance led to cultural changes in Vietnam, such as the adoption of Chinese-style irrigated agriculture, the education of the Vietnamese elite in Confucian-based schools and their inclusion in the local bureaucracy, Chinese replacing the local language in official business, and the adoption of Chinese clothing and hairstyles.

Unlike Korea or Vietnam, Japan was physically separated from China, and thus its adoption of elements of Chinese civilization from the seventh to the ninth centuries was wholly voluntary. The high point of that cultural borrowing occurred when the first Japanese state emerged and deliberately sought to transform Japan into a centralized bureaucratic state on the Chinese model.

So there.

Bingham

16/10/2014 00:08:37

Oh wait. Also, in attempting this copying the Chinese stae model, Japan voluntarily embraced, among other things, a Chinese-style emperor, Buddhism, Confucianism, Chinese court and governmental structures, and the Chinese calendar. But because the adoptions were voluntary, the Japanese could be selective. By the tenth century, Japan’s tribute missions to China stopped. In the long run, Japanese political, religious, literary, and artistic cultures evolved in distinctive ways despite much borrowing from China.

China on the World Stage

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