Answering the Big Questions, Strayer 5

6/9/2014

Organizationally, you'll find this chapter similar to Strayer 5. Charts work well; some people rise to the level of world historical significance. Make sure you're ready to make lots of comparisons, our bread and butter in WHAP.

Be sure to stop in at the Classical Period page to browse the "big ideas" before you read. You might find my essay on the Axial Age useful.

Many of you took a beating on Strayer 4, mainly because your understanding of the content was too shallow to answer the question asked, you didn't have the evidence in the right compartment in your head, it was disorganized. Preventing a repeat of that, and insuring you understand these topics deeply starts this weekend. Lick your wounds, get mad, and get to work!

34 Comments

Cristina Micci

6/9/2014 11:34:12

Mr Bingham, when you pointed out in class that there were 16 similarities between Jesus and the Buddha, do you mean strictly the similarities between their lives and personalities or including the legacies of religion they left behind after they died?

Bingham

6/9/2014 13:08:03

Sorry, that was misleading. I meant the legacies too. For example, neither claimed divinity in their own lifetime, but both were deified after their death.

Bingham

8/9/2014 02:09:20

I just looked at my notes. I have 14 comparisons, mostly similarities, but you need a few differences to get to the 14.

Bingham

6/9/2014 13:01:18

Sorry, that was misleading. I mean after their deaths too. For example, neither claimed divinity in their lifetime, but their followers deified them after their deaths.

Bingham

6/9/2014 13:03:16

Sorry, that was misleading. I meant their respective legacies too. For example, neither claimed divinity in their own lifetime, but both were deified after their death by their followers.

Caleb Crowder

6/9/2014 13:06:42

Well as it says in the description of the forum I think that we would really benefit from not only reading the chapter but also deeply understand it by the end of the weekend ( or at least i would ) So i'm going to attempt to get the ball rolling by answering margin question number one. Now to fully answer this question i feel one would need to discuss the views/values of each "answer to the problem of disorder" so a great way to answer this question would be with a t-chart including a similarities column. So lets start it off...

"The Legalist Answer":

-Believes that the solution lies in rules or laws

-Has a very strict rewards and punishments system in which good things are rewarded and mistakes are punished ( the idea behind this being that the people will do what the ruler wants and not what the ruler doesn't want; however, this idea is very flawed and basically, as stated in an interesting book named "Drive" by Daniel H. Pink, a reward,simply put, makes a person work less hard the next time because they expect to get the reward.)

-Believed that most people where stupid and short-sighted and that only the state and rulers should act in "long-term affairs"

-Promoted farmers and soldiers but discredited specialization such as artisans, merchants, aristocrats, scholars, and other such classes regarded as useless

"The Confucian Answer"(The one most adopted by Chinese ideals):

-Believed that to fix China's problems the solution would be with the moral example of superiors

-(going a little more into detail with the first one) the superior party of any relationship (ie: father;son, Husband;Wife, brother;younger brother, and ruler;subject) so treat that relationship with sincerity, benevolence, and genuine concern for the lesser party.

-Believed that the practice of ren(roughly defined on pg.129 end of the second full paragraph) was essential in both political and family life.

-emphasized education for this moral belief (including liberal arts unlike the legalist answer)

-found ritual and ceremonies to be important as well

-believed greatly in supporting family life

-practiced the idea that women simply served men and it was there place to accept that idea and modestly yield to others and that they needed education not to be equal to boys but to learn how to better serve them( had a very sexist outlook )

-believe that superior men possessed great moral behavior and were very intellectual and that they were not men who came from a aristocratic background. this did allow for lower class citizens to become higher class; however, most of the time education only got to those who had the money to afford it.

-Had a very secular outlook and although did not in anyway discredit the idea of god, it did clearly state the we haven't the slightest way of understanding the life beyond and so we should be focused on bettering the life we live and not trying to please some god(although they both should go hand in hand by their beliefs)

"The Daoist Answer":

-Did not believe in the following of education and moral improvement

-Urged withdrawal into the world of nature and encouraged individualistic, natural, and spontaneous ideas

-focused on the realm of nature and it's unfolding patterns

-Central concept is dao( the unchanging principle that governs all natural phenomena)

-Loazi(the so-called founder of daoism) would "rejoice in [the] power" of dao

-encouraged people to remove themselves from the world of political and social life and to disengage from the public life important to Confucianism

-urged simplicity and limited government

Similarities:

These answers are all very different and i'm not so sure exactly what they may be one possible answer my allude to the yin and yang as a sort of similarity between Daoism and Confucianism but beyond that i'm not so sure so i'll leave that up to anyone else to answer

So I've been going on here for a while now and i hoped i helped someone. If i got anything wrong, left something out, or wasn't elaborate enough on anything please respond i would love to know. I would also love to know about the similarities column as in, are there some and whatnot?

Bingham

6/9/2014 13:12:45

Good stuff Caleb.

Bingham

7/9/2014 03:32:30

Hmmmm. I wonder why the Strayer 4 test went so badly?

Fewer than 10% of you internalized Strayer 4 well enough to even make a good showing. I know this blog is not the only way to work with the information, but I can tell you from experience it's highly predictive of performance on the next test.

LISTEN TO ME, I'M TALKING TO YOU! It isn't me, it's what YOU are not doing. Make the t-charts and the timelines. Answer the margin and big picture questions in your own hand. Talk to people about the content. Reoganize, reorganize, reorganize. Don't do the same thing and expect a different result.

Nicholas Perkyns

7/9/2014 05:41:22

In margin question 4, Strayer implies that there are multiple ways that the religious traditions changed in South Asia, but I only see one way in which it changed from ritual sacrifice to philosophical Hinduism (due to the dissatisfaction in the corruption of the ritual sacrifices leading to the creation of the Upanishads which outlined philosophical Hinduism). However, I also see multiple comparisons before and after the change like the differences between the Vedas and the Upanishads, how priests were needed for rituals and how achieving moksha was an individual journey, and how rituals were done for the gods while pursuing moksha was for one's own spiritual development. Do these comparisons count as the ways in which the religious traditions changed? Have I missed any of the comparisons/changes between ritual sacrifice and philosophical Hinduism?

Caleb Crowder

7/9/2014 11:41:05

I'm not sure if you already realized this but i'll just say it anyways. The third transition that Mr. Bingham references to about devotional worship is discussed in the section "Hinduism as a Religion of Duty and Devotion" and not in the original section labeled "South Asian Religion: From Ritual Sacrifice to Philosophical Speculation." In the first chapter we did the margin questions were answered before the next one was asked but some of the questions have similar parts to them so Strayer will actually overlap them in terms of placement. So just keep that in mind when looking for the answer.

James O.

8/9/2014 13:49:16

You are so right! In answering the margin question concerning the many changes of South Asian Religion, I answered the next two margin questions!

Bingham

7/9/2014 07:46:03

It's tough to generalize, especially when talking about South Asia. However, you could talk about a three phase evolution: Ritual sacrifice to philosophical speculation, to devotional worship and detached actions on the world.

Bingham

7/9/2014 10:14:26

By the way, the extra credit is up. Check the home page.

Bingham

7/9/2014 13:50:22

Great analysis Caleb.

James O.

8/9/2014 14:08:47

I am taking into consideration what you mentioned in class about the importance of comparisons in analysis of the chapter. In regards to the margin question: "What aspects of Zoroastrianism and Judaism subsequently found their ways into Christianity and Islam?" I felt the need to answer the question in two comparative parts (what Zoroastrianism contributed and what Judaism contributed). I understand they both contributed general aspects to Christianity and Islam but i find the differences between the contributions of the two important. Should i make the comparison there?

Augi

9/9/2014 12:29:17

Well Strayer says that many aspects of Zoroastrianism like good vs. bad, the arrival of the final savior, and the day of judgement etc. all contributed to an evolving Judaism. So I interpreted it as the Persian religion first influences Judaism which then leads to Islam and Christianity. In the chapter strayer says that Judaism came later.

Allie E

8/9/2014 15:39:59

This isn't really a "deep" question, but it has really been bothering me. Strayer says that when Daoism became a poular religion with the common people, the people used the dao for practical purposes like magic and finding immortality. I was just confused on how this change happened.

Augi

9/9/2014 12:31:24

So for MQ 1 and 3 I saw that they are both comparison questions and are asking you to compare the three Chinese traditions that developed from the collapse of the warring states. I was going to do a chart and compare them all and try to answer those two questions in one chart.

Augi

9/9/2014 13:27:22

This is my shot at MQ 2 tell me if anything is wrong or if there are improvements thanks!
. Confucianism was secular in character. While it did not deny the reality of gods and the supernatural it was far more interested in this worldly solutions to human relationships, effective government, and social harmony. For example, Confucius believed that the key to social harmony was the sincerity, benevolence, and moral character of superiors would cause the inferiors to act with obedience and respect. Education was supported as the key to moral improvement and government officials were soon tested by applying Confucian principles to situations that could arise in daily life.

Cristina Micci

10/9/2014 14:32:15

On page 127 in my book, there is the big chart with all of the "thinkers and philosophies" of the classical era. There is one religion on there that is not mentioned anywhere else in the chapter: Jainism. Is this religion at all significant for us to know?

Cristina Micci

10/9/2014 15:03:33

Also another thing: in the big picture questions #1 and #3 the question only uses the term "religion". Considering that Confucianism is not a religion, would we not be able to use it to support our answer?

Savanna Lim

10/9/2014 15:35:44

AHH YES! I was having probs with this too pls reply Mr.B

Seokhyun

10/9/2014 16:08:54

In the book, Confucianism, Legalism, and Greek Rationalism are pretty much described as philosophies, so we shouldn't count them as religions

Caleb Crowder

11/9/2014 11:25:49

Confucianism, although did not start off as a religion, was transformed by it's followers over time and Buddha even eventually became a god like figure to some people. So in a sense it could be considered a religion and since it is one of the biggest philosophies discussed in this chapter i would say that in the context of those questions that you would consider Buddhism a religion

Caleb Crowder

11/9/2014 11:32:40

i realized i went from talking about Confucianism to talking about Buddha... not exactly sure how that happened. but the basic principle still stands, that being that I'm relatively sure that those big picture questions really just want you to discuss Confucianism as well. ( so basically just ignore any part of the beginning of my first reply that doesn't make sense)

Nia P

11/9/2014 15:59:35

I think that here we should keep in mind what Bingham always tells us about not answering the question and having an essay marked as non responsive. In this chapter Strayer specifically points out that Confucianism is defined as a not being a supernatural religion and we even answered a margin question on why it's not a supernatural religion.

Bethany V.

10/9/2014 14:51:03

I don't quite understand the description of the Mahayana denomination of Buddhism. Strayer says it's a religion of salvation. What exactly does he mean? Is it basically like they strive to achieve nirvana in life, and if they perform acts of piety and religious merit they are saved in the after life?

Savanna Lim

10/9/2014 15:42:49

So basically Mahayana is a modified form of Buddhism- it's different from the Theravada form (which is the earlier form of Buddhism) because people can get assistance from others to reach nirvana. I guess it's a religion of "salvation" because you get freed from the rebirth cycle once you reach nirvana, which basically means your individuality vanishes, you practice love and kindness, and you feel overwhelming serenity. They're not really "saved" in the after life because the true "reward" is being freed from the rebirth of the cast system.

Seokhyun

10/9/2014 16:53:53

*The caste system only applies to Hinduism...

Bethany V.

10/9/2014 23:38:39

I was confused because Strayer mentions that they had elaborate descriptions of heaven and hell. But that's about all he says about the after life.

Savanna Lim

10/9/2014 15:49:18

I'm gonna list some of my similarities between Jesus and Buddha here. If you have any more please help!! Or if you think I'm wrong tell me.

1) Both became spiritual seekers
2) Both personally experienced another level of reality
3) Both became wisdom teachers who challenged conventional values
4) Urged renunciation of wealth
5) Emphasized supreme importance of love and compassion
6) Urged personal transformation of followers
7) Sought to reform the traditions from which they had come
8) transformed by followers into gods
10) Both did not intend to found a new religion (too similar to 7?)
11) Personal authenticity attracted growing no. of followers.

Ragan King

10/9/2014 15:55:37

I have two more-

12. They both proclaimed their message to a much wider and more inclusive audience.
13. Both reflected prevailing patriarchal values

Allie

10/9/2014 16:23:20

I found this website comparing Jesus and Buddha and also Christianity and Buddhism. It's kind of helpful; it says pretty much all of what Strayer says but in a different way. So I would suggest just checking it out
http://buddha-christ.info/contrasts.html

bingham

11/9/2014 14:34:32

Jainism isn't important to us yet.

Answering the Big Questions, Strayer 5

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