A Golden Time for China, Strayer 8

21/10/2017

Chloe Shupe

21/10/2017 15:58:37

MQ 6. In what ways did China and the nomads influence each other?
- Chinese influence on nomads
○ Employed Chinese advisors
○ Governed according to Chinese practice
○ Immersed themselves in Chinese culture and learning
○ Learned to speak Chinese
○ Wore Chinese clothing
○ Married Chinese husbands and wives
○ Practiced Buddhism and Daoism
- Nomads influence on Chinese
○ Founders of Sui and Tang dynasties were of mixed nomad and Chinese ancestry
○ Members of the imperial family led their troops in battle in the style of Turkic warriors

Is there anything I should add?

Bingham

21/10/2017 16:42:08

Looks solid to me!

Brandon

23/10/2017 15:34:32

MG4
MG4
MG4

-Nationalism/ Superiority
-China represented civilization

MG5

-China recognized other states as political equals due to invasions(xiongnu and turkik empire invasions)
-Xiongnu and Turkik empires extorted "gifts"

anything I should add for now?

John Liu

23/10/2017 19:30:46

MG 5, remember that the Chinese are going against really strong and big nomadic tribes that can deal with China on less equal terms. China also gave away their princess

Bingham

23/10/2017 19:43:57

Yeah? And?

Brandon

23/10/2017 20:09:49

I feel Those would fall under the 2 categories that I stated.

John Liu

23/10/2017 21:05:25

It means that in reality, the tribe system did not work as planed (If that is what it answers)

John Liu

23/10/2017 21:08:39

Maybe annual supply of grain, silk, wine that benefits the nomad (Sorry , I thought I wrote it, my bad)

Chloe Shupe

24/10/2017 13:15:32

This is what I put:
- In Theory (Chinese understanding of its operation):
○ Practiced to allow non-Chinese people access to China
○ Foreigners had to go to court
○ Foreigners had to perform a ritual
○ Foreigners had to present tribute to the emperor
- In Practice:
○ Practiced to keep Xiongnu and Turkic empires from invading China
○ Gave Xiongnu leader a princess for marriage
○ Supplied the Xiongnu leader with wine, grain, and silk
○ Gave Uighurs daughters for wives
○ Traded silk and precious fabric for poor quality horses with the Uighurs
○ Nomads required gifts from the emperor when they took over lands in the north

Zaryah Forde

23/10/2017 21:35:28

Why are the centuries of the Tang and Song Dynasties referred to as the Golden Age?

-advancements of art and literature
>poems, painting and ceramics
>explosion of scholarship and neo-confucianism
-newer state structure
>the six ministries( personnel, finance, rites, army, justice and public work) supervised by the cesorate to ensure competence of public officials
>renewed examination system
>political officials based (mostly) on merit rather than class
-economic revolution
>rapid population growth
>urbanization and specialized markets and agencies increasing the wealth of the state
-advancements in transportation
>30,000 mi of waterways allowed transport of food and market goods across the country
-increase in industrial production
>increase in the output of iron products
-inventions
>printing (woodblock and movable type)
>the fist ever printed book in history: allowed for the advancement in the spread of availability of education materials
>advanced shipbuilding and navigation systems made the Chinese sailors the best of their time
>the invention of gunpowder lead to a massive military revolution in the centuries following
-a commercialized society
>producing for market rather than for local use
>changes in the use of money due to sale of commercial goods:
taxes were required in cash, which increased the use of paper money, and the introduction of credit and "IOU's" increased commercialization

all of those details and i still don't think i answered the question

Bingham

24/10/2017 04:24:15

This is great, but I think you could tighten all this up into categories.

Chloe Shupe

24/10/2017 12:56:42

MQ 7. In what ways did China have an influence in Korea, Vietnam, and Japan? In what ways was that influence resisted?
- Influence in Korea:
○ Referred to their rulers with the Chinese term wang
○ Capital city Kumsong was modeled after Chinese capital Chang'an
○ Trade for ceremonial clothing, silks, fancy teas, Confucian and Buddhist texts, and artwork enriched increasingly Chinese style aristocracy
○ Students were sent to China to study Confucianism, sciences, and arts
○ Monk who travelled to China brought back popular forms of Chinese Buddhism
○ Schools for Confucianism using texts in the Chinese language were established
○ Chinese models of family life and female behavior replaced Korean patterns
- Influence in Vietnam:
○ Adopted Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, administrative techniques, the examination system, artistic and literary styles
○ Chinese-style irrigated agriculture
○ Elites were educated in Confucian-based schools
○ Chinese replaced local language in official business
○ Chinese clothing and hairstyles became mandatory
○ Chinese fled into the relative security of Vietnam while despising the local people
○ Styled rulers as emperors
○ Claimed Mandate of Heaven
○ Made use of Chinese court rituals
○ Chinese-based examination system
○ Elite class deeply committed to Chinese culture, viewing their own country less as a separate nation than a southern extension of China
- Influence in Japan:
○ Seventeen Articles Constitution - proclaiming Japanese ruler as a Chinese-style emperor and encouraging Buddhism and Confucianism
○ Adopted Chinese-style court rituals and a system of court rankings for officials
○ Adopted the Chinese calendar
○ Chinese-based taxation systems, law codes, government ministries, and provincial administration
○ Two capital cities (Nara and Heian) arose, modeled after Chinese capital Chang'an
○ Various schools of Chinese Buddhism took root
○ Art, architecture, education, medicine, views of the afterlife, attitudes toward suffering and the impermanence of life
○ Chinese writing system with interest in historical writing, calligraphy, and poetry was attractive among elites
- Resistance against influence:
○ Military resistance in Korea
○ Developed phonetic alphabet separate from Chinese language in Korea and Japan
○ Rebellion against China in Vietnam during weakening of the Tang dynasty
○ Greater role of women in Vietnam and Japan
○ Warrior class having greater status in the hierarchy in Japan
○ Native beliefs were stronger than Buddhism in Japan
○ Distinct literary and artistic forms in Japan

Should I condense this list or are there other key points that I missed?

Not Brandon

24/10/2017 21:04:30

It can definitely be condensed down to some stricter categories without losing the specificity of what they are. EX: the political structure with China's capital as the model, etc.

Chloe Shupe

24/10/2017 19:25:01

MQ 3. How did the Chinese and their nomadic neighbors to the north view each other?
- Nomads view of Chinese:
○ Threatening - built the Great Wall to keep them out, proved unwilling to allow pastoral peoples easy trading opportunities, directed military forces into the steppes
○ Valuable for trade - agricultural products, luxury goods such as silk and wine
- Chinese view of nomads:
○ Inferior "barbarians"
○ Valuable for trade - had access to horses, controlled much of the Silk Road, products of the forest such as amber, skins, furs, and hides

Is this answer too vague?

Bingham

24/10/2017 22:35:08

Looks good to me.

Alyssa Rivera link

24/10/2017 20:57:02

Hello.
I don't understand the first part of MQ9: "in what ways did China participate in the world of Eurasian commerce."
Does he mean the products that China sold and exported? Thanks.

Not Brandon

24/10/2017 21:35:49

How I saw the question was basically how China contributed to Eurasian commerce and what were the outcomes. EX: Gunpowder in China stimulated the invention of canons in Eurasia.

Bingham

24/10/2017 22:37:42

You're looking for specifics here about China's entry (which was limited) into wider trade: from where, what products, did they import, how did it effect their economy, etc.

Maha Rahman

24/10/2017 21:39:17

In What ways did women's lives change during the Tang and Song Dynasties?

- During the Tang dynasty, under the influence of steppe nomads, women participated in social life with greater freedom than before
Under Song Dynasty:
- reviving Confucianism promoted the subordination of women through separation of males and females in every domain of life
- Masculinity was defined in terms of scholarship and the arts, femininity, in turn, was redefined as weakness, reticence, and delicacy and women were viewed as a distraction to men
- the remarriage of widows was increasingly condemned
-foot binding of women showcased tightening patriarchy
(not sure if I should make these next 3 their own points)
- foot binding defined the new images of female beauty through small size, frailty, and deference
-foot binding served to restrict women to inner quarters
-foot binding served to distinguish Chinese elite from peasants, and Chinese women from outsiders (thought to be "barbarians")
-commercialization of the economy undermined the position of women in the textile industry, as men took over these lucrative positions
-job opportunities for women in cities opened up such as operating restaurants, selling fish and veggies, working as maids, cooks, or dressmakers
-growing prosperity of the elite created more roles for women as concubines, entertainers, courtesans, and prostitutes
-ready availability of entertainers (etc.) reduced the ability of wives to negotiate as equals with their husband
-this also set women against each other
Women's property rights expanded and they were able to control their own dowries and inherit property from their families
-education of women was advocated by public officials so they could more effectively raise sons and increase family fortune

Please feel free to make edits! (Did I lose any crucial points by condensing?)

Bingham

24/10/2017 22:38:21

Nice.

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 14:39:19

MQ3:
-The Chinese viewed the Northern Nomads as a means of getting horses, skins, furs, hides, and amber.
-They also saw these nomads as a great threat and built the great wall, directed their military into the steppes, and made trade difficult for the nomads.
The nomads saw china as a place with necessary resources (grain, agriculture, and luxury goods) and would periodically raid/extort china for these resources.
-China saw nomads as a military threat.
Please edit this if you can!

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 14:47:07

MQ4:
What assumptions underlay the tribute system?
-China was the "middle kingdom" the center of the world, infinitely superior to the nomads,
-great cities, refined taste, sophisticated intellectual/artistic achievements, bureaucratic state, literate elite, and prosperous economy made china superior to nomadic peoples.
-the Chinese were self-sufficient, but the barbarians needed some of their wealth. the Chinese, under controlled conditions, would permit such action because superiority didn't exclude barbarians from possibly being civilized.
-the tribute system required non-Chinese to understand their own subordination to Chinese and the Chinese superiority.

Maha Rahman

25/10/2017 18:05:18

I was having trouble with this question because I felt that a lot of the points i. this section could be applied to MQ2 (how Chinese ciewed northern nomads). Could anyone explain what Strayer means when he says “assumptions”?

Maha Rahman

25/10/2017 18:06:39

viewed*
in*
(sorry im typing on a phone)

izze chavez

25/10/2017 18:13:55

he means what v"criteria" supports the tribute system. Like the belief that Chinese were inherently superior to nomads was an assumption made that allowed the tribute system to continue.

Maha Rahman

25/10/2017 19:30:07

Here's What I got to "What assumptions underlay the tribute system?"
-Chinese viewed themselves as the "middle kingdom" or center of the world
-Chinese viewed themselves as superior to the nomadic and other non-Chinese people
-Chinese believed that their artistic and intellectual achievements, state, literate elite, and prospering economy represented "civilization" and the northern nomads were primitive, beast-like, rude, and bellicose.
-Chinese saw their own society as self sufficient and "barbarians" as dependent on China's wealth and wisdom
-Chinese saw themselves as a "radiating civilization" and believed they could civilize "barbarians"
- assumption of Chinese-centered world order and the place of foreigners as subordinate to the Chinese within it
-(not sure on this one)Chinese assumption that foreigners would continue to participate because association to Chinese and official titles, seals, robes, etc. gave foreign rulers prestige and was useful in their local power struggles

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 14:56:09

MQ5: How did the tribute system in practice differ from the ideal Chinese understanding of this operation?
-In Han china, the Xiongnu civilization of the northern nomads posed a threat as it kept raiding northern china. Labeled as "gifts" in the tribute system, Han china offered grain, wine, silk, and acknowledged to Xiongnu as political equals. This gifts=protection money.
-In Tang china, similarly Turkic empires were rising, and the Uighur's in particular rescued china from an internal rebellion, so china gave silk and the emperors' daughter.
-Extorting "gifts" from china was cheaper than conquering china, but sometimes when china fell nomads would rush in (han=khitan;Tang=Jin/Jurchen).
-the tribute system or "bestowing gifts upon barbarians" allowed the Chinese to feel in control when they were really just paying for protection.
I HAD A LOT OF TROUBLE ON THIS ONE PLEASE HELP!

Lia Stallmann

25/10/2017 21:58:03

All of that is correct and elaborated information, but it all kind of falls under 2 categories that 1) China thought they were superior to others in theory but failed to recognize that in practice there were other nomadic groups that had the ability to challenge China's dictating of terms; and 2) China bestowed "gifts" to others which gave them the false impression that they were in control of their relationship with another nomadic group, whereas in practice sometimes those "gifts" were just tribute in reverse, or protection money.

Is it possible to just answer the questions with this or would I need to fully elaborate on each category with examples? Also, I'm not sure how nomadic groups taking over China when a dynasty would fall relates to the question? Could you please explain that to me? Thanks!!

Nicholas Wesley

25/10/2017 22:24:14

I'm not sure about your last one. It may just be how it's worded. The question asks how does it differ from the ideal Chinese understanding of this operation, in which it still seems pretty ideal for the Chinese where they were still bestowing "gifts" and seemingly in control, but i can see where your going when reality they weren't.

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 15:10:07

MQ6: In what ways did China and the Nomads influence each other?
Chinese on Nomads:
-Employed Chinese advisers
-governed according to Chinese practice
-immersed themselves in Chinese culture/learning
-learned to speak Chinese
-married Chinese peoples
-practiced Buddhism/Daoism
-few northern nomads were integrated, but did not last
Nomads on Chinese
- founders of Sui and Tang civilizations were mixed chinese and Turkic
-imperial families led their troops into battle Turkic style
-merchants brought exotic goods
-clerics brought Christ, Islam, Buddhism, and Manichean
delegates brought tribute
-Tang brought ideas (art, literature, culture) from western barbarians
-Women had more freedoms so that rubbed off on Chinese.
please help me

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 15:15:47

MQ8: In what different ways did Japanese and Korean women experience the pressures of Confucian orthodoxy?
Korean:
-foot binding
-prohibition of remarriage for widoes
-seclusion within the home
-married women belonged to her husband's family
-men chose order of his women=tension within the house
Japanese:
-Japanese couples lived apart or in wife's families home
-women could inherit property
-marriage was made/broken easily
-women wrote poetry but in Japanese vernacular not Chinese script

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 15:26:16

MQ9: In what ways did China participate in the world of Eurasian commerce and exchange and with what outcomes?
-China produced salt by solar evaporation -> to Islamic world and later christian Europe.
-Paper making (Han dynasty) spread to the fringes of Asia, the Islamic world, to the Muslim Spain, and then to France, Germany, and England.
-Printing reached Korea and Japan where it was further innovated Buddhism in these areas supported print making, but in the Islamic world handwritten=better.
-Gunpowder -> cannons in Europe
-Textiles, metallurgy, and naval technology (magnetic compass accepted by mariners of all backgrounds in Indian trade)
-stimulated commercial life and market based behaviour
-provided a ready market for commodities from afar
-Chinese got rice that ripened faster/lasted longer
-they got Persian windmills
-Buddhism facilitated the spread of gunpowder and the urgency of printing
-Indian ocean trade made southern china a home to many cosmopolitan centers.
please I'm strugglin' edit this bad boy

isabella chavez

25/10/2017 15:28:57

Oh wait! there's more!
-these cosmopolitan centers= cultural diversity which resulted in tension/violence
-subsistence economy turned into an economy based on market
-merchants were accepted
-Monkey god (Indian) passed through china.

Bingham

25/10/2017 16:31:33

Rice from where? Buddhism and gunpowder? And the paper spread is about Buddhist texts. You should mention that some goods come into China through trade. Find out which.

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 16:52:59

Do you mean that under trade china got:
Indian ocean trade made southern china a home to many cosmopolitan centers.
-these cosmopolitan centers= cultural diversity which resulted in tension/violence
-subsistence economy turned into an economy based on market
-merchants were accepted
-Monkey god (Indian) passed through china.

and rice came from vietnam

a Buddhist monk traveling in China identified soils that contained saltpeter and showed that the produced a purple flame when put into fire= how buddhism facilitated the innovation of gunpowder.

and i should make "buddhism encouraged paper making because of all the religious texts they needed mass produced" into one bullet point?

Isabella Chavez

25/10/2017 18:11:03

◘At first, during the Han Dynasty, Buddhism did not take root/bad fortune because:
-seclusion and monastic life did not correlate with Confucian teachings of Chinese family values
-self salvation was considered selfish and did not coincide with Confucian social conforms
-abstract Buddhist philosophies were looked down upon because Confucianism was concerned with "this worldly" concerns
-Buddhism had infinite eons of time while Confucianism was concerned with finite family generation
◘After the collapse of the Han dynasty, Buddhism was accepted=good fortune
-political fragmentation discredited Confucianism and offered a time where Buddhism could penetrate china
-nomadic rulers of northern china like it because it was foreign like them
-the northern elite fled to southern china where Buddhism offered security
-Buddhism offered services for the people (seeds for farmers;education for children; resting supply stop for merchants)
-had magical powers and miracles
-dharma=dao; morality=filial submission; man supports wife=man controls wife
-pure land Buddhism supported rebirth and individual salvation
-state supported Buddhism (Wendi used Buddhism to justify military excursions)
-monasteries became rich (nuns and monks were tax exempt)
◘During the mid 19th century, Buddhism was discredited=bad fortune
-state within a state challenged imperial authority
-resentment of wealth
-monks and nuns got taxed again
-was foreign- An Lushan foreign rebellion gave foreigners a bad reputation
- celibacy and withdrawal conflicted with Confucian family values
Does this make sense? Lauren and I worked on this and were stumped.

Maha Rahman

25/10/2017 21:23:59

In What ways did China participate in the world of Eurasian commerce and exchange, and with what outcomes?

-Chinese diffusion of technological innovations to far away lands by soldiers, merchants, slaves, pilgrims and traders
-technological innovations included salt production by evaporation, papermaking and printing.
-papermaking and printing had the outcome of the spread of mass literacy, bureaucracy, scholarship, religion and information across Eurasia
-Chinese Technology production stimulated innovation and imitation in distant places in accordance to local needs
- examples are gunpowder invention leading to cannons in England, Chinese textile production, metallurgy, naval tech and the compass
-China's prosperity stimulated commercial life and market based behavior
-China sold products- silk, porcelain, lacquerware,- to buyers from Japan to East Africa
-the size and wealth of China's population provided a ready market to buy foreign commodities
-Chinese adopted processing of sugar and cotton from India
-Chinese gained access to drought resistant rice-strain from Vietnam which allowed for high productivity in rice-based agriculture in South China
-an outcome of this was the rapid population growth in South China, which overtook centers of civilization of China in the North
-China adopted technology from afar such as Persian windmills
-China's growing involvement in Buddhism (from India) led to printing
-Chinese invention of gunpowder had an Indian and Buddhist connection
-Growing participation in Indian Ocean trade by China
-this led to settled communities of traders turning ports into cosmopolitan centers
-construction of Buddhist temples, Muslim mosques, and Hindu sculptures in Quanzhou
-tensions of cultural diversity culminated in ethnic violence and massacres (Canton 870s)
-Indian ocean commerce transformed Southern China's economy from subsistence economy to export-based economy
-Merchants became more socially accepted and acquired high level positions in bureaucracy
-popularization of Indian monkey God in China

Zaryah Forde

25/10/2017 21:41:28

so this is about the * wink wink nudge nudge* BPQ #4: comparing Han China to Song and Tang China:

BOTH:
-advancements in technology, and agricultural production (Han: terrace farming; T&S waterway systems and strain of rice from Vietnam)
-flourishing of art, learning, literature and culture
-increases in widespread trade and commerce (Han: Silk Road, T&S: Silk Road and Indian Ocean)
-changing in political structures (censorate, ministries, and examination systems)
-introduction of religions/philosophies (Han: Confucianism, Daoism; T&S: neoconfucianism and buddhism)

HAN
-more basis in the silk road/ trade more centralized within Eurasia
-less cross-cultural interaction (Confucianism and Daoism and more distinct Chinese culture and influence)

TANG/SONG
-increase in globalized interaction (indian ocean commerce and the tribute system)
-introduction of new ideas and cultures (popularity of Buddhism and cross cultural interations due to trade)
-more commercialized society( focusing on the production of marketed goods rather than goods produced for local consumption)

am I missing any points or are any of these too vague? Please edit or reply and let me know!

izzeeeee chavezz

25/10/2017 23:08:59

okay, so i dont think this is what the question is asking totally. I think its asking about how the Han, Tang, and Song dynasties were all similar and then how the Tang and Song dynasties then differed from the Han dynasty. I don't think its so specific as too group Tang and Song separately, rather make broad statements like both tang and song had long term migration into the Yangzi river valley. You know?

Maha Rahman

25/10/2017 21:52:41

What facilitated the rooting of Buddhism in China?

-The collapse of the Han Dynasty led to chaotic, politically fragmented times which discredited Confucianism and opened the door to different understandings of the world
-Nomadic rulers in Northern China found Buddhism useful because it was foreign, saw it as their destiny after being classified as barbarian to follow a barbarian religion
-rulers and elite families of China provided patronage to Buddhist monasteries, temples and art
-Buddhism provided to comfort in Southern China to Northern aristocrats fleeing a collapsing society
-emphasis on ritual, morality, and contemplation was satisfying in chaotic times
-Buddhist monasteries in China provided social services to ordinary people including travelers, refugees, the sick, those in need of charity, children
-Buddhism was associated with magical powers and miracles
-monks, scholars, and translators presented this Indian religion in Chinese terms that the Chinese public could easily understand (ex. the changing of terms like dharma to dao)
-The Mahayana form, especially the Pure Land Buddhism, was popularized due to its emphasis on salvation by faith without study or intense meditation
-reunification under Sui and Tang Dynasty's led to growing state support of Buddhism
-this led to monasteries becoming wealthy, exempt from taxation, running business,etc.

Lauren Dotson

25/10/2017 22:11:34

Also, the emperors used Buddhism to justify their military campaigns.

Bingham

Welcome class of 2020. Some years students collaborate in this space effectively, some years not so much. One thing I know, collaboration significantly enhances learning. If you want access to my thoughts, this is the collaboration space to use. Most people propose an answer to margin questions, big picture question, or anything else related to managing Strayer. Other people can then comment leading to a stronger answer. I'll keep an eye on these pages, and pop in when I think you need me.

A Golden Time for China, Strayer 8

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